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Courtney 0:05 Welcome back to the Still Minimum Wage Podcast with Courtney, Fifa, and Sam! We're a podcast for creative entrepreneurs that are launching their business.

Fifa 0:14 We're three creative girl bosses who met through a group coaching program.

Sam 0:19 By sharing our stories, we're hoping to inspire you and also share things that are normally hidden behind the curtain or swept under the rug by people that we typically look up to who are hundreds of steps ahead of us. We are just a few steps ahead of you learning thing, for the most part, the hard way. And so, hopefully by sharing our conversations you can get some insights to tackle the common problems we face as creative entrepreneurs.

Courtney 0:48 So for this week's topic, it is Still Not An Ideal Client and just so you guys know, all of these topics are real problems that Sam, Fifa or I have. So we're each going to take turns in the hot seat and the other two are going to coach them through how to take steps to deal with this issue. So today, in the hot seat we have Fifa!

Sam 1:11 Just give a little background as to what is your business and what do you do?

Fifa 1:16 Hi everyone! So my name is Fifa and I own FeiModern Creative Studio. I am a brand strategist and a web designer. I've been doing this officially for about a year. After I got fired from my job in june of 2019, that's when I decided I wanted to do this full time because I did NOT want to go back into corporate. I wanted to see how long I could survive being an entrepreneur and so I guess 2020 was pretty much kind of like a blessing in disguise because I was able to have government assistance to be able to build my hustle basically throughout the year. So I mean, it was a tough year for everyone but it was also the year that I did start my business officially. I learned a lot through it. Finding a niche was definitely and is still, one of my biggest problems even to this day and I really hope that I'll be able to figure it out soon. But this is something that we are all struggling with and it's something that I'm really excited to talk about today. Alright, so sam and I are going to jump into some questions to get a little bit more background and insight into where your head is and why this is such a roadblock for you Fifa.

Sam 2:45 Fifa, what is it costing you in your business to not have an ideal client?

Fifa 2:51 Oh yes, that's a big question. So I would say not having an ideal client definitely does cause headaches. Working with so many different niches is hard because you want to be able to.. let's say, because for example, I have a social media manager and she does talk to me about who I'm targeting and I still can't figure that out. I don't know what questions to ask and it's just, it's tough when you don't have an ideal client and you hire somebody and they're asking you for who you're targeting and you don't have an answer. Then you can't actually use the person in a way that will help your business and take it further. In that regard, I would say that would be costing me I guess some money because I'm still trying to figure it out myself and I'm not using her to her fullest potential of how I want to probably use her. I mean like obviously, it's not always stuck with me because like, she's helped me with so much but it would be so much better if I could tell her exactly who I'm serving and what types of people I want to work with. From there, she can help me target those people and help me connect with those people so that I could actually get more clients and work with the people that I actually want to work with. Courtney 4:39 One of my first questions is, who are the people that you feel like you gravitate towards working with? And do you see a commonality between either their interest or what their companies are?

So... before when I started, I was open to working with of all different types of businesses because I was still trying to figure out which types of people that I like to work with. And over time, as I started getting all different types of entrepreneurs, such as accountants, photographers and all these different people, digital marketers. I realized that I started to gravitate more towards entrepreneurs in the creative field. At first, I was trying to target mostly digital marketers. But I realized I don't want to just work with them. I wanted to work with people from different fields as well, but overall in the creative industry. I was really open because I was still starting and I just wanted to get my feet in every industry just to see how it is working with different people. So I have had some clients, like, even currently, I do work with a CPA, I work with people in the legal industry as well. And I realized that's not something that is really fun to create websites for and create any sort of branded collateral for them. It's just different. It's very serious. I realized over time, that's so not me because I'm more of that fun, playful type. I really like getting into the creative aspects of design.

And so I realised over time, that that's definitely not something that I want to gravitate towards. Not so much in the boring professional fields but more in those niches that are much more creative. I know that I do have to narrow my niche down further because it's way too broad. After working with all these different people, I realize I do need to focus on narrowing it down. So the way that I've been doing that so far, has, like I said, just been trying out different fields. But it's really tough because I know in the web design industry, I've heard from other people that they also don't really specifically have a niche from what I've been learning. Especially like getting on Clubhouse these days, I did get in a room that they did talk about that and it's actually quite surprising to hear that a lot of designers or web designers don't specifically have a niche. So that's something that I'm struggling with right now because like, I wanted to look into those groups to see how I could differentiate myself from other designers. And it seems that most of them don't even have a niche and they just take on whatever clients come their way. So for now, it's tough, because if you don't know your niche, we all know that it's hard to cater your marketing to targeting those type of people that you want to attract.

So for me, it's very generic right now and I do want to tone it down to a more specific audience. Right now my copywriting and my marketing is very... I guess you could say it's kind of all over the place. Or maybe not all over the place, but very broad. I do say I work with specifically women because I do run a community of female entrepreneurs. And it kind of just so happened that I do like working with women more, especially if I'm running the community of women, and I understand them more since I'm a woman myself. It's just easier to get along with them. So after that, I realized I'm just going to cater towards women and I'm all about female empowerment. So from there, that's when I realized, okay, I'm just going to cater towards women entrepreneurs, more service-based female entrepreneurs and not so much in the e-commerce space. I did work with that already and it's really not my jam. That's the point where I'm at right now.

Sam 9:26 I think there's a misconception that when coaches tell us you have to pick a niche, we automatically think it's like a specific industry or a specific age range or whatnot. I like to kind of choose a different route because there's different ways to approach this question and I like to think about it as, what do you want to be known for? Specifically for web designers. Web design has so many different platforms to create on and so for Fifa, I would suggest to attach yourself to a specific platform. That way, you're a little bit more narrowed, right? So you can still work with creative female entrepreneurs. But what kind of websites do you build them? And so the question to you Fifa is, what kind of web designer do you want to be known for?

Fifa 10:15 One way I have thought about differentiating myself in a way would be for my minimal and modern designs. I do go for more of that high end look and have more simplicity to my designs. So definitely, I'd want to be known as the designer in the space that creates WordPress websites specifically because I do work with WordPress more than I do for, let's say, Squarespace. It's still something that I've diving into but it's not a favourite of mine, for example. So definitely WordPress is something that I want people to know me for. WordPress and minimal & modern designs for female entrepreneurs.

Courtney 11:02 So going off of your devotion, I guess, or your passion for WordPress and becoming known for that, are there certain features that you could build out within WordPress that would attract a certain type of client? So you know, when I think of WordPress, because I'm not a web developer, I think of a blog. But from what I understand is that you can host your entire site on WordPress. One of the benefits is that you host it yourself versus Wix or Squarespace, where they technically kind of own it in a way. And so, are there features or like types of pages that you excel in? Where you could be known for those things specifically within WordPress? So, you know, again, I mentioned the blog, like not that everyone has to have a blog. But if that was a key function that they needed to have, is that a signature part of your package? Where those could be, maybe again, like to Sam's point, it's not an industry that you're niching in but it's WordPress sites that have x function, like that is your jam and that's what you do the best.

Fifa 12:10 I guess in that regard, the reason I love WordPress so much is because there's so much that you can do without knowing how to code. And I know there are so many different platforms out there that are drag-and-drop. A lot of people don't actually know that WordPress can be a drag-and-drop platform as long as you know which plugins to add onto your site. So for me, I work specifically with Elementor, which is another drag-and-drop platform or feature of WordPress. There are also other ones like Divi, there's Beaver Builder, and all those other plugins. But for me, I work specifically with Elementor and I help my clients kind of coach them through how they can make the edits themselves. Instead of me trying to do everything for them if they want to make additional edits. So they wouldn't need to hire someone to actually upkeep the edits themselves, like I actually help them to figure that out. With all of my packages I usually coach them through. I record a video to help them navigate their site and make the edits themselves. So specifically for me, it's Elementor. I know Elementor compared to any other builder but WordPress specifically, like I help my clients also set up chat systems with specific plugins because I've tried and I've tested many different chat features and all these other plugins specifically for WordPress.

So in that case, I can allow my clients to have a lot more functionality with their websites that are, compared to Squarespace and Wix for example, they wouldn't have that unless you actually pay for it. There are so many free plugins out there that many people don't know that you can have. That's why I love WordPress so much because you can build so much without having to pay for additional features. So I pretty much help my clients with that and I try to keep their costs down low as well because I know which ones work. And so in that regard, that's that's why I would say WordPress and Elementor would be my specialty.

Courtney 14:49 I think an additional specialty is that you teach people how to update their site's themselves and then you can install this chat plugin. That is huge especially moving forward, I hear about it so much for marketers. And so, that's something else to think about adding in as your secret sauce in addition to the actual design elements and style.

Fifa 15:12 I love that actually. I never really thought about that until today. I've started playing around with this specific chat feature and it's really good. I have mentioned it to you guys before but it's very interesting because you can actually see in real-time when a new person comes on your site and you can start a chat with them. Like, you know, kind of like a customer service agent would. So I find that really interesting. You can see which page you're going on and all of those other features. I'm always constantly learning as a designer and I'm always testing things especially as a very tech savvy person. I love playing around with different tools. I'm such a tool geek. A business tool geek. So I guess I would say that's one of my specialties in a way, where I love testing out things and doing it myself so that when it comes to actually working with a client, I can suggest which tools or which plugins would work best with their needs.

Sam 16:43 Fifa, I always encourage you to include in your "I help" statement or your value proposition statement, what the result of having a website does for a client. So for example, you were talking about this chat feature and what's coming up for me is that this is valuable because it's akin to going into a retail store and having the associate greet the new customer. Right? So how impactful is it to have an active website that engages with the customer as they land on the page versus having a passive page that you have to reply to email to even engage with the customer if they even submit a question to the form. And so, I would suggest putting, like, "I create minimal, modern websites that engage with live customers and convert into sales or convert into sales consultations."

Fifa 17:47 That's true. I never actually thought about it in that way. But you did bring up a really good point about the chat feature and like, talking more about the results because my messaging on my website and in my social media is very generic. And I don't talk so much about which specific results I bring to a client and it's because I've never really thought so hard about it until pretty much today. So it's very interesting that we're having this conversation because there are so many good questions that are being asked that I never thought about before. So definitely taking notes on that.

Courtney 18:33 So another way to think about your niche, per se, is ... set aside the buzzword for like a second, right? Like, it's a buzzword. The reason why having a niche is so important is because you can hone in on the people that are ideal for you to work with. Being ideal is important because you've finished the project quickly, you're not sitting and wasting money by not being able to make them happy and like basically moving on, right? And with web design, you know, if you keep them on as a retainer where you update for them, that's great. But you basically don't want to be taking time that you didn't allot for a project and investing more and not being able to take on new work as that hits the bottom line. So when you don't know what you specialize in and who you want to work with, there becomes this weird fear of like, I have to take everybody because no one is coming to me. And then sometimes you get those "bad clients" or people that are just like, not a good fit and the working relationship the whole time is just painful... and I have been there, I will tell you that.

So one other question for you to think about as you formulate who you want to work with is, where do they need to be in terms of knowledge to be ready for you? Are you working with people that are beginners? Is this their first website? Or did they DIY it themselves and now they're ready to simplify it or to bring in these more sophisticated technologies because they're building a full funnel? Or are they people where they just want everything to be done for them? They don't want to learn any of it and they just want someone to get on a call with them, make their updates, and then you know, two weeks later it's done? I think by this conversation, we know that's not your niche. But think about what do they need to know? And what info do they need to have already to be ideal working with you? And if you are going to be offering teaching and coaching at like, a cost savings, where I'll build up the site for you and you can do the upkeep with the images and the text, what traits does that creative need to have in order to really make the most of their package when they book you?

Fifa 20:51 That's a really good point. I love that you mentioned that about the level because at the beginning, I just wanted to work with people who already had their business but didn't they just needed a website and it was very generic. I never actually looked into at what level they're at in their business. It's something that is very, very important to consider. And for me, as I continue doing this, I realize I do want to work with people who have an idea already of their mission and they've built their foundation already. It makes my job a lot easier when they already have that figured out. Even though yes, I do branding and stuff, I work specifically with a visual branding strategy but I don't work with the client in figuring out the whole foundation and the mission... building everything from scratch in that regard. So it's very interesting to talk about this because not many people talk about it. And in terms of like branding, it's so broad, there are so many different areas of branding that people don't realize. I only realized it as I started doing this that I'm more of a visual brand strategist. Not so much on the foundation part. And so, yeah, that's a really fair point.

Courtney 22:29 By the foundation part, you mean specifically, like they need to know who their audience is already, they need to know their offer, they need to know what they have? Like, these are not things that they're exploring with you, they need to kind of know that and they need to know what's important to them because as a web designer, those are things to take into consideration that they're not paying you to figure that out.

Fifa 22:52 Exactly yeah, that's right. I thought at the beginning I had to know everything and I had to do every single thing with them. But over time, I realized that's not my strong point. For me, I'm more on the visual side of things and implementing everything. Once they've already figured out that strategy, then I could take what they have already figured out, take who they're targeting and actually translate that into a website and a branding strategy that works with what they've already given me. Sam 23:26 Fifa, it sounds like you're not your ideal client.

Courtney 23:34 Everybody thinks that they are their ideal client, though, like everybody. When you ask them the emotional questions, I'm like, are you just describing yourself? But then you find out when you work with them it's like, oh, no actually not.

Sam 23:49 So one thing I wanted to say from designer to designer is we get really attached to the creative part of it and we always think that like, our value proposition has to do with our style. But let's tone our egos down for a little bit and realize that other people have similar styles. Clients can pretty much DIY everything now and especially with those DIY tools that have those premade templates, those are our competition too. So we really need to focus on the specific results that we can provide to our clients that is not really something that other competitors can articulate for themselves or even offer for themselves. An example in my business is that yes, anybody can go on Canva and create Instagram designs. However, when you work with me, you are getting a design that no one else has. You're getting one that speaks to your personality. And my little cherry on top is really just having a signature look that identifies what you actually do. It's not just looking pretty. The visuals tell people in seconds that this is what my services are about.

Courtney 25:02 As the non designer in the fam, hello. The biggest thing, so I, in all transparency, DIY'ed my own website and there's so much insecurity that goes into it, right? It's like, I'm putting this here and it looks good but is this going to convert? I don't know. I'm only building my website and so, even though I can DIY it myself there is always going to be that insecurity. Is this even going to work because I'm not an expert? And I know that I'm not an expert. Whereas for you or for Sam as a designer, you're looking at these things you know not only the aesthetics but like the function of it. And anybody that's an entrepreneur needs to understand that a sales page is crucial in that it's not just about looking great. It has to be functional. There's a lot of thought behind it in psychology. I don't know these things and even if I did know them functionally, I don't know if I can execute it. And so, that is always going to be one of the benefits of working with an expert and working with somebody that is skilled with meeting me at where I'm at, right? So I am that person where I'm creative, I know what I want but I don't necessarily know how to execute it. And if you can show me, you do it for me and be like, "Okay, here is the structure. I took what you had, I took your messaging and your values and put it in. Now these are the updates that you need to make." To me, that's a no-brainer investment because I'm getting it done by a pro. It's going to convert because it's based off the years of experience that you have and I can upkeep it myself. So... that's just something to think about again when we talk about what's that "I help" statement. Like what are the things that I need to know and I can do to bring to the table for you to take it and really make it that next level of what it needs to be?

Sam 26:54 So Fifa, what was your biggest takeaway from our conversation today?

Fifa 26:59 Just knowing at what level your audience is, is something to definitely consider and something that many people don't think about. That's why having an ICA, that's what they call it, right? Ideal client avatar. Actually thinking about what level they're at and what business level they're at as well, these are all really interesting things you have to sit down and actually think about so that you can formulate your own image of a type of ideal client that you want to work with. So I would say that's definitely one of my biggest takeaways.

Courtney 27:40 So Fifa, we want to make sure that you walk away with a call with some steps on what you can do next to take this from conversation to actual action. I would recommend making a list of the traits of people that you don't want to work with. It can be personality, it can be types of business, it can be types of sites. And then I would make, it's almost like a pros list of if you built out 10 websites, what are the features that you would love all of them to have? Or, not all of the features but what's a feature that all of them would have in common? So if it's that chat feature, if it's a certain type of page or it's a certain type of messaging, keep that in mind. And think about where your ideal client will be in business and also in their tech skills? So you talked about that you can completely equip them to update their site themselves. So what do they need to know in order to take advantage of that?

Sam 28:36 And then going back to what is the one thing that you can specially deliver as a result to people and what kind of businesses or entrepreneurs need that thing and are willing to pay for it?

Fifa 28:53 I love that thank you so much guys ! It was so good to have this conversation and there are so many things that I have to do now to be able to put this into action. But all of the questions that you've asked really helped me to dive deep into who the type of people and at what level that I'd want them to be and it's not something that many people ask. So I feel like you asking those questions is really the start of finally clarifying my message and finally figuring out what types of people that I want to work with.

Sam 29:34 Okay let's take a break from the conversation and talk about our free resource of the week. So here on the podcast, we like to talk about resources that we are using in our business that are helping us and hopefully they can help you in your business as well.

Courtney 29:49 So today, we want to make sure you know about answerthepublic.com. It's a site where you can figure out what people are asking about what specific topics. Whether it's chocolate, it's web design, it's entrepreneurship or it's sales. All you need to do is type in a phrase. Just 1 - 2 words for best results, and click Search. It will bring up a web of different things that people are searching the internet for. As a social media strategist, I will tell you this is a key thing for knowing what sorts of questions my ideal client is asking so I can answer it in all of my sales and marketing pieces and on my social media. So you can try it at answerthepublic.com on any browser and it should work. So to summarize two takeaways from our talk today, here are two main points. Number one, having a niche does not mean that you have to pick one industry and stick to it. Your niche can be a type of person, it can be a level of business, it can be a solution that you specialize in. Or even an offering or a feature that you have within your specialty. Takeaway number two, make sure you know what your ideal client needs to know in order to work with you at that stage you want them to be at so that they know all of the things that they need and you can take it from there. If you enjoyed the show and want to leave us a review, you can find us on Apple podcasts, Spotify. we'd love to hear what you think. And you can also find us on Instagram, tik tok and Pinterest.

Sam 31:30 If you found this podcast helpful, subscribe so that my brother thinks I'm cool.

Courtney 31:35 Please subscribe so that I don't look like a crazy person just talking to myself in my room. Thanks!

Fifa 31:40 Please subscribe so that my mom will finally know that I left my job for six months without her knowing. And we'd love for you to tune in for next week's episode!