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Sam 0:02 You're tuning into the still minimum wage podcast with your host Courtney, Fifa, and Sam. We're three creative entrepreneurs who met during a group coaching program and started a podcast so that we can share all of our struggles, talk about all the real and the raw of owning a creative business. Each week, someone's gonna step into the hot seat and we're going to get coached by our other two buddies on the call. We love talking about business, marketing systems and getting organised and what does it look like to finally build a business that pays you a little bit more than minimum wage. This is a show for you if you're a creative entrepreneur and you're looking for some comrades along your journey.

Courtney 0:49 We're three friends trying to build our own little creative empires, there's a ton that we're learning along the way of best practices for business, marketing, and mindset, and we're here to share with you the nuggets of what we are taking with us on the journey.

Fifa 1:06 We're gonna be discussing a lot of things during this podcast, both the real and the raw, of how we do things behind the scenes, how we're really feeling when we're running a business. It's not always the glitz and the glam, there's always a bunch of things that as business owners we always have to go through but we don't often talk about. So, by tuning into this podcast, you are going to be connecting with us in that way, and seeing how it is that we are venturing out with our own journeys so that you can take it as a lesson for your own journey.

Sam 1:39 Let's meet our hosts!

Courtney 1:41 Hey guys! I'm Courtney of Courtlynn Creative. I'm a social media manager turned coach that specialises in helping creatives, especially in the wedding industry, figure out how to make content that tells a good story and converts. And to do it without spending endless hours making social media posts. I started my agency in my coaching business after spending six years in corporate marketing working for Fortune 500 companies. I'm now teaching what the marketing needs to know things are to creatives, that are just getting organised in their marketing activities.

Fifa 2:21 Hey everyone! So I am Fifa, I help service-based female entrepreneurs create their dream website using clean, minimal and modern designs and helping you book more calls with your clients through having a beautiful website that actually helps to convert.

Sam 2:41 Hey! I'm Sam. I'm the founder of Awesam Design Co, the branding design service for online coaches who want to stand out on Instagram. I help them create custom branded designs for their content so that it stands out and it is clear for their audience to consume their content. Alright, let's get into the conversation of today's topic. We're just gonna talk about the background. It just so happens that we are all of Asian descent. And I think that plays, actually, a significant role in our lives and in our careers as creative entrepreneurs. And so, if you relate and maybe you are also from an Asian background and try to start a business, especially in a creative space, you might be able to relate to the fact that this is unknown territory to our friends and family members. And you probably have to deal with a lot of flack when people ask you about what you're doing with your life. So, who wants to jump in and kind of share some of that?

Courtney 3:54 Well, the crazy thing for me is that I actually come from a pretty creative family. My grandfather was a commercial photographer and my sister studied photography in college. But, I never felt like that was something my family really encouraged with me. Like, it was fine that as a kid, I was drawing, making jewellery, even ... you know like trying to find like little ways to be incentivized to do chores and making money.

But when it came to me telling my parents after college that I wanted to be a wedding photographer, it still really rings in my mind like these words that I was, I think I was 24, and wedding photography was just starting to become more accessible. With blogs becoming more popular and just digitally evolving, and I always knew that I had a passion for photography. God knows how much money my parents spent on developing my film. And I've always loved weddings, just because I'm kind of girly and feminine like that and I love the parties and I love the dresses. So to me, in my mind it makes sense to work on a creative endeavour and to try and make money. But literally my parents told me, "You can NOT do this. If you do this, you need to move home." The only thing they were paying for at that time was my car insurance but I wasn't making that much money so I was like "woah" and they were like, "No, you need to go get a job at the UC," which is the University of California, where I'm from. And their mind was like ... and it still is, something that comes up very often. Like what is your plan for retirement going to be? They told me, "You don't know how to run a business. You can't do this." And so, I think that was something that really has stayed with me and even recently this year with the pandemic.

I know it challenges our conversations about this so, you know, once again, after working about like 10-12 years in corporate, in education. I still have this creative blog I love, I just love to create content. And I understand how to teach, and so I wanted to be able to help other small businesses grow their small businesses with, you know, not working for "the man" as I like to say, and... being more one on one, but just in like ... little conversations where I would test the water to see if their mindset had changed. I was stressed. This passion was great, I wanted to do it, I was making plans. But I was like, how am I going to tell my parents that I want to quit my job to run my own business? And it kind of got to that point where my job was driving me crazy and my soul was dying but I was trying to grow my business at the same time. I was working long days. Literally the week that I was going to tell them, I got fired! And I was like, oh I literally don't need to have this conversation that I'm going to quit my job. It's like, what else can I do?

So that was kind of like a mixed blessing. But it's still really hard to talk about how this is and I feel like I don't want to share how things are going until I feel like I've hit this certain mark where I've replaced my full time job income. And as everyone can relate to, there's struggles that I encounter every day. There's mindset blocks that I hit. So, it's still kind of a challenging topic within my family and even when they do say that they want to support me, my mind tends to feel like it's pity and not true support.

Fifa 7:33 Yeah, I can totally understand what you mean by that. Well, for me it's more, I was always a creative type, even when I was like five years old or so. I was always drawing and I would always be ... you know, doing some crafts. And as I got older, the typical Asian parents are always like, "Go into business or go into science or something." But I was always lost about what I wanted to do. I always went into general programs because I still didn't know what I wanted to do as I got older. I went into economics which was like, really random but I had no idea what else to do. So, I'm like okay, you know what, let me just go into it and then see how things pan out. I remember at one point I wanted to go into Psychology because of I was like, oh this is pretty cool with Human Psychology it's such an interesting topic! And my parents were like, "No, if you go into Psychology and if you work with crazy people all day, you're going to turn crazy yourself." So, I never really had that freedom of choice in the things that I wanted to actually do. That was something that I struggled with as I got older.

I did want to go into Art at the beginning but my parents were not for that either. They were like, "You're not going to make any money doing art so go into business or something." So I ended up going into Business and graduating in Business Management at John Molson School of Business. And so I graduated from that ... I gave up almost halfway because I was not motivated at all. I didn't even really know what I wanted to do with my life but my mom was like, "Just keep going you're almost there! Once you finish and you graduate university, you can do whatever you want." So, after she told me that I was like, okay, I'm just going to finish it and get my graduate degree and then I can do whatever we want, she said!

So I pretty much started working for corporate and I never got the job that I wanted in management. It was just really really hard because I was, well ... I'm originally from Montreal. I'm in Toronto now, but I had always this issue of not knowing French. So French was always a limiting factor for me and I never was able to get the job that I wanted. So because of that I just worked at administration jobs my whole life. There was always something that was stopping me. I always felt like I craved a creative outlet of some sort, because I am naturally like, I love doing creative stuff. So, I always felt there was this whole part of this like something missing in my life, and then eventually, that's when I started taking up a bunch of side hustles trying to figure out what it was that I wanted to do with my life.

And then eventually when I got fired, that's when my whole life changed. I didn't tell my parents at all. It was like a secret. I pretended to go to work for like six months after I got fired because I was so afraid to face my mom and even to this day, my mom still does not know that I got fired. I just said I moved to Toronto. I just, like... went to Toronto and made that as an excuse and even to this day I know if she listens to this podcast, she's probably gonna know by now. But it's okay, like... she'll eventually find out but it's like the past, so it's okay. But yeah, after I got fired, that's really what basically started my whole business. I found my zone of genius and I've been doing it ever since. My parents are divorced. I have a good relationship with them and they're perfectly fine with whatever it is, now that I do. My dad doesn't really know what I do as long as I'm making money. But my mom, she's okay now because I got that graduate degree like she wanted and things didn't end up working for me. Now that she sees what it is that I'm doing, she always telling me like, "Maybe you should get a job and then do that on the side." But I really really wanted to just try it out for myself how to run a business and then see how things go from there but she's starting to finally accept that.

Sam 12:15 So, my background dates all the way back to when I was a kid. I was always drawing and writing. At the age of 10, I was writing fluffy fanfiction. I was making fan art. And that's when I discovered Geocities, HTML. And like, basically the world of like making websites. Since I was so obsessed with Buffy, I taught myself to make my own website and it was just from there. And then also I was competitive a little bit where I was like ... okay, I can't beat the other fan sites based on the information they have because they have been at it longer than me but their sites are not really attractive and so I can make mine really good. So I taught myself Photoshop and the rest is history really.

When I went to college, I went for graphic design. I went thinking that I was going to eventually work for a company and do design work for like celebrities and whatnot since I had a little bit of experience there. I then interned for Warner Music Group and the creativity in the design marketing for like musicians ... is really just not there. I think most of the creativity really is just for the album designer. But for as far as marketing goes, we really were just combining text with photography and that's it. And then also the commuting, I think a lot of people maybe dream of becoming a designer and going to the city and working for a fortune 500 and just doing that whole lifestyle. But that wasn't me. I do not like commuting and especially now I have two dogs, I just love being home all the time. So that just wasn't in the cards for me. Then what magic happened was in my last year of college. I found an entrepreneurship class that I took as an elective, that changed my world. I was like wait ... I can start my own business?

Going into a little bit of my background. My grandparents immigrated from the Philippines. They pretty much worked whatever job they could get to support the family. We're like a family of 8. Pretty much a lot of my family members are creative but never really went into the creative field. And so ... by me going to school for graphic design, that was kind of being the first family member to go that route. I'm also the oldest of my four siblings and my grandmother's 11 grandchildren on my mother's side. And so, I feel a lot of pressure to really make it, be a good influence and role model for the rest of the kids and family. And so, it's been a stressful journey trying to prove myself as a business owner. Because right off the bat, I graduated college and I said I wasn't going to get a job, I was going to work for myself. School did not teach me business, it didn't teach me how to market myself, management services, or any of that stuff. And so ... I really just turned to the internet to do that in trying to figure that out. Both freelancing and also, I feel like I was living like that kind of starving artist life, where I was working like Cafe jobs or whatever. I actually worked at a coffee shop, a local coffee shop for a while and that was fun actually. But then I quit, because I was like, I'm finally going to make it. I had an idea where it was like ... I'll get some success on Fiverr. I actually met some fellow entrepreneurs and we were going to start a company together where I was going to be the lead designer. I flew out to Carolina to meet up with them and start that business and nothing came out of that. Then I went back to that same cafe and worked there for another year.

Prior to the pandemic, I was actually being my cousin's nanny. I was with them for 12 hours of the day taking them to school, picking them up and staying with them until their parents got home and I loved it. I love giving back to my family in that way, but also they were still supporting me. So not only were they supporting me in, you know, keeping a roof over my head, but they were also paying me to take care of their kids, and I appreciate it but I wanted to be the one who provided for them now. I don't know if you guys can relate to that kind of Asian culture where like, you're taken care of and then you become the adult and you return the favour and take care of your family. And so like that is a big driver in me wanting to have a lot of success in life and in business. And also the reason why sometimes when I struggle, I cry alone in my room.

Courtney 16:54 I cry when my mom is asking me too many questions and voicing the insecurities in my head. When I'm in my room, I just pace back and forth and like pick things up and put them back down.

Sam 17:08 A fun thing I would like to share, though, is that, like, I think you said Fifa, your parents don't really know what you do. I still have like family members who try to show support a little bit where they're like, "Oh I know this person who might need a web design," or something like that, and I'm like, "Hey guys I don't do web design anymore?" They're like, "Well, what do you do?" and I'm like, "Social Media Design", and they're like, "Uh huh." They don't know what that is.

Fifa 17:37 My dad, he's like, "As long as you make money. I'm proud of you, as long as you're making money" And like, it took my mom forever to like, really understand what it was that I actually do. She was so against it until she started seeing results like, I mean, not like significant crazy results but just like she sees me growing as a person. And that was when she was starting to really accept it but before, she still has this thing in the back of her mind that because she used to own a restaurant, and she failed at it. That's probably something I should have brought up. She did own a business before. Multiple restaurants like in Ottawa, and she pretty much went bankrupt because it didn't work out. So now because of that, she's had that fear of running a business. So now when I said like, oh I'm gonna do a business and everything, she was like, "Oh.. Are you sure I don't know about that" because she's afraid as a mom, you know like how that's going to turn out because she's had such a bad experience with it. But now everything's different. Now we have social media, and there's so many different ways for you to market yourself. You just have to know how to play around with it and see what works for you. Compared to back then, it was different and running a restaurant is really really hard too. So there was also that, that made her feel like, "Okay, I don't know if this is something you should do but, you know, try to do it and if it doesn't work out, go get a job. And just get something to help you pay the bills while you build this.' So we'll see if I'm gonna have to end up going back to a job. I'm trying not to but so far, based on my experience I'm slowly growing and I'm happy that things are slowly starting to work out, and she's starting to accept it.

Courtney 19:47 I don't know if you guys can relate to this or if you've even been able to pinpoint what your parents perceive to be success but, I think that my parents' issue with my career choices have less to do with it being creative and actually more to do with it being like an entrepreneurship thing. And to them, I don't know that they really care about the amount of money that I make in terms of like, if I can pay my bills. But one thing that they bring up constantly is retirement, it's security and it's health care. So, I think that I could potentially be making 100k, but the fact that I'm paying for my own healthcare is something that they're not happy about. I find that just to be really interesting and I've tried to bring up to them that having a corporate job is not more secure than working for yourself. And in fact, I feel like it's not because, as Fifa and I've experienced, you can get fired like at any point and they're not really invested in your long term plan. But to them that's just something that they really value and I don't know if it's because my grandparents have made it a point like to take care of their own retirement. They're not necessarily looking at my parents to take care of them and I think my parents who made those same choices. But my mom uses the excuse all the time of when she talks about retirement and I turn to them like, "I don't want to talk about this anymore." And she's like, "Well I'm just bringing it up because I'm your mom." Can you guys relate to that at all?

Sam 21:22 Yeah, every time I make a sale now I'm like "Oh, I made a sale!" and then she was like, "Well, are you putting something away for Social Security or like, what's happening with that?" And I'm like, "Yes grandma I'm paying my business taxes every quarter," and she's like, "Yeah but what about Social Security?" and I'm like, "That's where it goes to." And I was just so heated like I hate when they talk about Social Security. I'm only 30 I still have time, you know, and like Fifa said, at the end of the day I can get a job and get Social Security benefits if you know, my life falls off or something like that. At this point I'm just trying to validate that this is what I want to do with my life. I don't know, it's just super stressful, because I don't care about that right now. I just want to make money doing what I want to do.

Courtney 22:07 Yeah, making a career choice based on passion is like something that's just not cute in my parents minds. Actually also my parents are divorced as well. My biological father, he's always been in nonprofits, but not necessarily very successful. But on the converse, my stepfather, who, you know, he is married to my mom and like I'm really close to them. He's worked the same job for 25 years and his commute is super far. I know he doesn't love it and so I can like, understand that evaluation of doing what you're passionate about because that's not something he or more my mother have ever done. But it's also just a really interesting shift in our generation's mentality from their mentality because it's very possible that you can work for yourself and then you get a job offer to go work on a corporate brand or agency, become a director and then you decide to leave and go back to consulting. Within our generation that's not seen as a bad thing but I think in our parent's minds, that's like really confusing and hard to process.

Sam 23:21 About getting advice from your family members who never started a business, they're like, "Yeah, you should file as an S corp or like you should do this.." You're just like, "Leave me alone."

Okay, I want to shift the conversation a little bit to others who #relate to any of the stories that we share. What has been like one kind of saving grace for you? Like a mindset shift or a tactic that you use to kind of navigate these family comments? Pressure—internal pressure, external pressure, and just kind of like, not so quiet judgement.

Courtney 24:10 I can share that one thing I've realized within my family that's helpful is for me to educate them. Not in an emotional way and not in an angry way. So you know when they have advice or they have their thoughts, or even like their silent judgement, it doesn't help when I react from a place where I feel like I'm being personally attacked. Like, they don't realize all of the resources that are available to learn how to run a small business. Whether it's on Etsy, it's your own site, it's your service. And so there's, you know, a lot that you learn after college that you don't learn in your university where you can fill in those gaps of things that are required to run a successful business. And then if you have the skillset you can teach it.

So, exposing them to those potentials and talking with them about the things that I'm learning has helped to bridge a little bit of that gap to help build my own authority in their minds. Just like you have to build the authority with your audience with someone that doesn't know you, I realized there's some of that that needs to happen within the family as well. And the other thing is having my own goals and telling them what those goals are. So, it is definitely one of my goals that when we're older, I just kind of want to go on a vacation with them and I want to pay for everything. I don't want it to feel like it's a huge hit. It's like money that I've saved away. And they've done the same thing for me as a kid. And so, you know, I don't want to do it to show them, like, hey look at all this money I'm blessed with. But it's a way that I want to live out the values that they've given me. So sharing my goals, also sharing about what I'm learning and what I'm getting better at is, helping to foster that conversation and to shift their mindset and their perspective on what entrepreneurship is.

Sam 26:13 I think I make it a point to make time for helping out my family. So my grandma's retired now but she had a couple of incidents where she wasn't, she's just rocking and rolling around and she can drive around, but there were instances where she had to kind of take a pause from being so independent. And so, I would be there to help her and so what I'm hoping is that they can see that, you know, in this choice, I don't have to ask my boss to take the day off. Right? I don't have to report to anyone if I have a family emergency. I mean, besides my clients.

I guess my advice to others is just to, if you were going to have an uncomfortable conversation like Courtney had with her parents, just to be like listen, it's not just about money, it's about being there for you and spending time as much time with the family that I want to in the present now while we're all here. Versus like me just kind of slaving away at a job, and then you know, let's say certain families that pass and it's like you missed that time because you were just working at a job that you didn't like just for the money.

Courtney 27:26 That's really huge especially as our parents get older and you know, God willing, there aren't any huge health issues, but I know that in my family they're the ones that drop everything and go. And so that's a huge thing to communicate, that it is also about the availability and the investment to be there. It's not just having time for like the fun stuff but hey, you need someone to take you to a doctor's appointment? I completely can do that for you because I can shift my schedule and shift my priorities. I think it's also maybe for our parents that work really hard, it's showing them we don't work less, we just work different hours than a typical 9 to 5.

Fifa 28:09 It's true. My mom, she's worked 2 or 3 different jobs at a time I think, pretty much her whole life. Seeing her work so much for so many years, she's so used to it. You know, she sees that ok, I may just have one job and I'm trying to pull through with it and that may be something that she wasn't okay with at the beginning because she's so used to working so many different jobs. That's why, she keeps telling me like, "Oh maybe you should get a second job, you know, just to make sure that you can pay the bills." And, I mean, I have worked at like two different jobs at a time while going to university and it was crazy. I couldn't do it. I did it for some time, but I stopped after a while. But it's just something that my mom has gotten used to now as she sees me continuing to just like, work on one thing, but doing it really well. And so, it's taking her some time to adapt to it but it also helps when she's following me on social media too because I speak to my mom in English. Like I don't speak to her in Vietnamese or anything so I mean it's a lot easier to communicate with my mom compared to let's say, my dad who I speak Vietnamese to. But my Vietnamese is not that great and that's another reason why he doesn't really understand what I'm doing. I'm kind of just like saying little bits and pieces here and there but he's like, "Oh okay, um, well if you're doing good then I'm happy for you."

But her, at least I can communicate with her properly because she can speak English. She follows me on social media and sees my stories and sees my posts. So over time, her being able to like follow me and see how it is that I'm growing while doing this has really helped her to accept the fact that okay, maybe I'm not making the money that she was making when she was working like 2 - 3 jobs. But she sees how happy I am and she sees how much I'm growing as a person while doing this business. So that's making her learn to accept it more and actually continue supporting me and rooting for me along the way. I feel like with social media, having your parents follow you on social media if they're more technologically savvy and being able to share that stuff for them to follow through with you on your journey I think it's going to help a lot in letting them accept that fact that, like, you're growing. It also helps if you're sharing it too. So just making that effort to just share whatever it is that you're learning on your journey. That's really what helped me.

Courtney 31:09 I definitely want to add in that it's not easy to share. It's not easy to open up and to have these conversations like, you know, #relatable again, I cried so much on New Year's Day. In front of my mom, which is, you know, in my mind, the one person I don't want to cry in front of. And for the first time, she was just asking me how things are going and she could tell that I was stressed. I think that's the other thing, our parents can sense how we're doing but they don't know why. They don't know what's that mindset block that I just hit. Like, I completely missed my sales goals. They don't understand. They just see that we're not doing well and that conversation turned into me telling her exactly what I was sharing earlier, "I'm never going to tell you when I'm not doing well because you're going to tell me to give up and to quit and to go back and to get a corporate job. So, I have no incentive to share with you when things are going badly. Like you're just going to tell me all of the things that are not helpful in that moment."

And you know I'm saying this and my eyes are welling up and I'm like, don't let the tear come through. But my voice was choking up, and I was like, this is the worst New Year's day ever. The outcome of that was you know, her hearing what my real fears were and when I was holding back. It gave her the opportunity to tell me that like, "No, I want you to tell me when things aren't going well and I want you to tell me what I can do to help you. Even if it's really hard for you to make that Ask." It was humbling. I think that's what a lot of these conversations do for us, it has to do with family. They humble us way more than our peers, way more than our coaches because they see us and who we really are. But at the same time, we sometimes avoid it. Even though it's going to make us stronger, as entrepreneurs and as business owners. It does also help to build that connection with our family. Like for the most part, they really do care about our well-being. They just don't always know what to express or how to even look at it from a different way than what they've been used to.

Fifa 33:35 My mom has had that mentality of, well, she's always like that worried type of person. She worries and gets stressed very easily. So, I find since, because a few months ago or maybe like last month actually, I watched The Secret. I know I remember mentioning it to you girls about it. I watched The Secret documentary and it was funny because like, I had that book for so long. I just never really read it and I don't even know how I got the book. But it just appeared out of nowhere and I brought it along in every house I moved to. I never actually read it but I decided to just randomly start watching the documentary and I talked about it to my mom. And it's so funny because I didn't think it was like going to have much of an impact. Or she might not really think so much about it but it actually changed her life.

To be honest, I never thought it was going to have that type of effect on her but when I was talking about it to her, she actually started to be more mindful of the things that she said or be more mindful of her thoughts. So I feel like after I talked about it with her she completely started listening to podcasts like an Oprah or like listening to positive podcasts and all that stuff. So it really changed her mindset entirely. She's really trying to be like, she's already a positive person in general. That's how I got get my positivity from. But after I talked about it, she's really changed her entire way of thinking. I feel like just being more open to your parents and talking about the lessons that you learned, even just talking about things that you watched that has helped you, you never know what they're going to take from it. You never know if it's going to change their life or anything. I feel like that really helped my mom. Now I can actually talk to her more openly about certain things that I usually wouldn't talk about. She's usually really positive about it now. She doesn't say anything negative really but I feel like that's really changed everything since I started talking about it to her. So maybe you know, like just being more mindful about that and trying to educate them, like you said, Courtney, I think it really helps.

Sam 36:19 Awesome! Let's do our takeaways from the conversation.

Courtney 36:25 My biggest takeaway is... Ouf, I have two but I'll just pick one. Kind of what Fifa was sharing about her mom's experience, is taking the time to hear about what they went through. To understand not only where their concerns are coming from but like, what was their career journey and what were their struggles. It helps to frame up the conversation in a way where we can be connected and we can show empathy to one another.

Fifa 36:58 I guess for me would be pretty much like what Courtney said. Just like being more vulnerable but also like, being able to share more about it because you never know how they're gonna react, right? So I think just being open about it. That's my biggest takeaway. I feel it's really nice to share with your parents everything that you learned. Just being able to share things with your parents is a big thing that I feel everybody should do. Even though it may not be something easy to do. You being able to show a little bit of your vulnerability allows them to just connect with you better.

Sam 37:47 For me, I really like what Fifa said about sharing your journey on social media. All my family members are on social media and if I would show up a little bit more frequently, then they can follow along in my journey in kind of being more transparent about what I'm doing. That was like my biggest thing. Like, oh I should probably share more on social media. I'm not at the point yet where I would have a sit down with them at their dinner and be like hey, this is what's going on in business. But maybe in the future, I would just kind of share more like hey, I'm doing okay business is still good. Just so that their anxiety about my well-being in the future, they'll feel a little bit more secure about that.

Courtney 38:38 I love that takeaway. I think that's a really actionable one and that we all can apply.

Sam 38:45 Yeah, so I think we can wrap it up with the resource of the week!

Courtney 38:50 So our resource of the week is our pick for free tools that we've been using to organize and grow our businesses because we know we're all just barely making minimum wage. So we're not going to be plugging really fancy tools. These are all things that we've actually used in our businesses. Fifa, what do you have in store for us?

Fifa 39:10 So, the resource of the week that I would definitely recommend is ClickUp, which is a product management tool. It's cool because you can implement a lot of things in it and it's more than just a project management tool. They have like a dashboard that you can actually embed your Excel sheets and have a chat section to have with your team members. Along with all these different squares that you can add into the dashboard where you can just access everything in one place. So definitely check that out! It's really awesome.

Sam 39:47 This concludes our episode of still minimum wage podcast. If you're interested in listening in on more of our conversations, we encourage you to subscribe. Check the description for all our social media handles and stay tuned for the next episode because now we're going to start diving deep into our business problems.